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software 

honestly
i feel like the idea of some kind of ""ideological purity (no fash vibes at all btw yeah mhm)"" just makes things worse a lot of the times

like, all these suckless guys being like "foss!! unix philosophy!! everything else is impure and must be destroyed!!!"

but like
consider

most of that kind of software is basically unusable unless you're some ablebodied white guy with a fuckton of free time

so uhh
who cares about the """ideological purity""" just do whatever works best

software 

oh no!! my software doesnt follow the unix philosophy!

ok but what
if it works better like that, who cares

software 

like, the amount of people ive encountered who saw me posting a screenshot, noticed that I use gnome and were like "smh imagine actually using gnome. i only use THE IDEAL PURE SUCKLESS SOFTWARE. wow smh smh imagine actually using something with accessible and something that's comfortable for you to use"

or the amount of people who saw me editing something in vscodium and instantly went "BUT VIM"

it works for you? that's cool
but dont pretend that all software must be pure or smth

software 

i hate how it's a common thing for people in communities related to programming or any kind of niche software to be all condescending and smug and shitty about software choices

like, i get it, you want to feel superior and special because your software is more obscure and less accessible. you're basically reinventing black metal but for software

i would Never judge anyone for using all that minimalist ideologically pure software if these people weren't so shitty about it in first place

software 

tl;dr
your philosophy is cool and all but don't pretend that it's PURE PERFECT IDEAL FLAWLESS software and even more, stop thinking that everyone else wants to, or can use it
some software works better for you, other software might work better for me, and no matter how perfect and pure your software is, don't be an ass about people who use something else

software 

and to clarify further, I'm not even saying that it's some problem with foss or the unix philosophy in particular, but rather, an unfortunately large amount of users surrounding it

this is a common thing with proprietary software too, and even hardware

the biggest example is probably even "haha lmao look at that loser using an android. imagine not using the OBJECTIVELY PERFECT APPLE IPHONE"

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress honestly, my rule of thumb is if they talk about "bloat", avoid them

re: software 

@Dee agree

i mean, there are cases where it's valid to complain about bloat
but if they consider accessibility and Actually Working Software bloat, then yeah

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress @Dee Yeah, bloat in the sense that we're wasting a ton of energy and quality just to let developers have it easier with no benefit to the users is relevant imo. My personal algorithm is:

see the word "purity"
run, disappear, hit the road

because that mindset wil likely overlap other "purities". I was surprised when I, fairly recently admittedly, found out that suckless people were nazi fash, but I shouldn't have been. (I never interacted with their developers or forums etc. tho, that's probably why.)

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress i fuckin hate iphone supremacy

especially because there are so many budget android phones

it's classist as fuck

re: software 

@00dani @AgathaSorceress many android phones LITERALLY have more features
like my oneplus 7 pro 5G has more features than the top of the line iphone at the time (with only compromises in pure CPU muscle but who cares)

software 

@AgathaSorceress super common in the synth community too, unfortunately

software 

@tindall yeah i just experienced a lot of that last month and it's so annoying

the amount of rich elitists being condescending about the tiny extremely specific differences between the chorus in a behringer synth and a juno chorus and acting like it's the worst thing ever, while it sounds basically the same

I wish people could just.. not be elitist about things

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress
Gentoo has (had?) a massive problem with these kinds of people and it's taken a long time to start mopping up the mess. until earlier this year, there was an entire subforum just filled with the worst kinds of people. they're even currently discussing the policy of requiring legal names for contributors. I have hope that things can get better, even if Gentoo has historically been a home for the kind of people you talk about.

software 

@AgathaSorceress It's the casual disdain from the Apple crowd that makes them insufferable. I was listening to one podcast recently and one of the hosts just tossed off, "We all know Windows and Android users don't care about good software design..."

And yes, I stopped listening to that podcast after that remark.

software 

@AgathaSorceress someone on here posted about treating personal tech as an extension of the body, in terms of boundaries and respect. I don't know how well it stands up philosophically, but I think it's a good heuristic in terms of when it's OK to suggest or criticise.

software 

@AgathaSorceress I wish this kind of contempt culture died out in the 2000s. It is a absolute worse.

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress yea i fuckin adore vim but i am not here to shame ppl for finding something else works better for them

but also fuck suckless. garbage people

re: software 

@00dani yeah, in fact, i *do* use vim, but whenever i don't, there's always someone who is so excited to point out how trash and bloated my text editor is

suckless just feels like the "my software is pure and it's the only acceptable software" idea taken to the extreme, which unsurprisingly works nicely with their fash ideas

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress yea i'm using phpstorm right now because it's the best tool for the job for me, despite being a Trash Bloated ide or whatever :blobcatgooglyshrug:

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress
some people don't understand that other people using different software to you doesn't stop you using the software that you want to use. people have different goals and priorities when it comes to choosing software, so what's right for you might not work for someone else, but two people might use the same software for entirely different reasons.

re: software 

@AgathaSorceress
if you want your software "pure", that's a bit weird but ok. let me use my janky hand rolled python and let my friends use their """bloated""" DEs in peace

Re: software 

@AgathaSorceress able-bodied person with a fuckton of free time here.

I use dwm and dmenu.

I don't recommended it.
(dmenu is good tho)
@ecmel
You are kind of doing their gatekeeping for them by writing "unusable unless you're some ablebodied white guy".
Not onboard with the sentiment.

It can be more difficult to get help, to get taught, to get to contribute.
I don't like going into #emacs anymore, for example.

But that's something we could try to change, rather than reinforce.
Saying "The software is for ablebodied white guys" makes it less appealing for everyone else. So please don't. That's the opposite of what we want here.

@ecmel Gosh darn this app which doesn’t differentiate between posts and reposts! I need to set up something else instead.

@AgathaSorceress

@AgathaSorceress @tindall it's off topic, but with the mid/late 90s days of "ALL THINGS VA ARE THE DEVIL!" largely gone, I can't help but wonder what you mean by the synth community being the same.

software 

@AgathaSorceress presumably you are aware of the totally normal "midnight hike carrying flaming torches" at suckless hackathon 2017? suckless.org/conferences/2017/

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Eldritch Café

Une instance se voulant accueillante pour les personnes queers, féministes et anarchistes ainsi que pour leurs sympathisant·e·s. Nous sommes principalement francophones, mais vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s quelle que soit votre langue.

A welcoming instance for queer, feminist and anarchist people as well as their sympathizers. We are mainly French-speaking people, but you are welcome whatever your language might be.