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"And an idiot using Linux actually benefits Linux as a whole, since if we want our market share to grow, we have to assume the user is an absolute and utter idiot. Since most are."

i hate this idea so much. stop treating users like clueless little toddlers. fuck off.

reddit, yikesy word 

operating systems should be designed around what an average person would consider logical. not a software engineer, not a toddler.

yes, windows is designed around treating the user like a toddler. this is why formatting a usb stick took me ~40 minutes to figure out. if windows teaches users bad habits like "don't read errors or warnings", it doesn't mean that every other OS should be bending backwards because of those habits

re: reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress "oh yeah, but you see, I have an anecdote where someone I know made some entirely unreasonable assumption about computers, which anybody could have made and then corrected when they found out it was wrong, but told in isolation my anecdote reinforces the idea that users are incapable of reason at all"

re: reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress what is up with the tech bro superiority complex

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@AgathaSorceress My general opinion here can be summarised as "design for the average, but allow for outliers".

reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress@eldritch.cafe I feel like this is an unfortunate overlap between Nerd Supremacist thinking on behalf of developers, and people complaining about anything in Linux that does not look and feel exactly like it does on Windows…

reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress on the one hand, I get where people are coming from with this, because I work retail tech customer service and the majority of my customers do not want to understand their machines outside of their own routine tasks, even a little bit. on the other, this habit is nurtured by design choices that actively obfuscate what's going on and why it's important, creating an illusion of safety and simplicity.

re: reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress
Last time I dealt with linux, I wanted choose the most stable and conservative os for a webserver available. So I thought: debian11 it is. And then I realised they want me to put effort to relearn rebooting. Insane geeks, why would they do this to peaceful users?

I still think that linux devs too often forget the concept of non-geek user.. And it is natural: many of them do this work for themselves.

reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress hmm this is bad, but my parents can't figure out the notification shade on Android and I want them to be able to use linux and I do think we have to make the OS user friendly and provide information on how to do things

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@AgathaSorceress you have to learn a bunch of random things from random forums and shit to figure out how to do anything, and I don't think that's acceptable

reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress people aren't used linux and expecting them to just know is not a good idea, and yes windows does have an easily accessible guide: asking people around who who are familiar with windows (no such option for linux)

reddit, yikesy word 

@tthbaltazar @AgathaSorceress I can't figure out whatever new garbage they added to Android notifications in the past few years, either.

reddit, yikesy word 

@tthbaltazar @AgathaSorceress Of course it has to be user friendly, but not because your parents are idiots and not because they don't have agency to learn.

Just because it is sensible design, you need to make things easy to use and give adequate instructions, and not assume skills people might not have. No need to patronize, and much less insult, people that don't have a tech job or hobby.

reddit, yikesy word 

@AgathaSorceress People are idiots, no matter their age. My friends and parents are frightened to do anything they haven't done before or that isn't painfully obvious, even when instructed. I've noticed that I'm not comfortable doing things I'm not entirely sure about either, but a lot less so than them.
But the thing is that they're the majority, so a mainstream OS has to at least kind of accomodate them. That shouldn't have to mean everyone is treated like a child though.

@AgathaSorceress i disagree in the "why cant you have a 'power user' way of doing a thing and a 'average user' way of doing a thing too" way

like people not understanding technology will always be a thing why make learning a new technology hard. i want people who arent tech literate to (be able to) get into linux if they want.

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Eldritch Café

Une instance se voulant accueillante pour les personnes queers, féministes et anarchistes ainsi que pour leurs sympathisant·e·s. Nous sommes principalement francophones, mais vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s quelle que soit votre langue.

A welcoming instance for queer, feminist and anarchist people as well as their sympathizers. We are mainly French-speaking people, but you are welcome whatever your language might be.