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i think instead of releasing new computer hardware every half a year that is twice as expensive, consumes twice the amount of power and is slightly more powerful, we should simpley bully software developers into optimizing their fucking programs

skype got away with 100mb ram usage in 2015

why is my discord client in 2022 using nearly 3 gigabytes ram

here's discord canary, vanilla, no mods, nothing injected

1.4gigabytes right after startup
I'll post another screenshot after I let it run for a few hours

"oh but its convenient to not have to worry about optmizations"

you know what is not convenient? when your software crashes my computer because of complete lack of optimization

"oh but ram is cheap these days"

this is 16 gigabytes of ram. it should be more than enough

you know how much latest 32gb ram is? €150-500, depending on speed

that is Not cheap in any way

@amberage i am running latest discord canary with replugged BUT every single plugin is turned off so technically there is nothing there that should affect resource usage

I can also try without replugged for better accuracy

@AgathaSorceress @amberage yeah, try it without anything custom, it shouldn't be using that much

@tthbaltazar @AgathaSorceress @amberage I get just above 50 MiB for Discord right after opening it, 112 MiB if you include common libraries

@schratze @tthbaltazar @AgathaSorceress @amberage keep in mind that browsers do fucky things with ram, element uses 500MB of memory rn and 60GB of virtual memory

@schratze @tthbaltazar @AgathaSorceress @amberage yeah uh, Something Ain't Right in your install if it's using multiple GB. I'm using just shy of 400MB RAM for Discord and I'm running close to the 100-limit of servers on free account.

@hyratel @schratze @AgathaSorceress @amberage oh yeah, I have no idea what agatha is using, I can't recognize the TUI, but that *could* be virtual memory

@tthbaltazar @hyratel @schratze @amberage btop, with all processes belonging to discord-canary collapsed so the memory usage is combined

@AgathaSorceress actually the `discord` package doesn't use the system electron, there is a separate package for that

@AgathaSorceress personally I always just use it in the browser, apparently there are some other funny things when you run it sandboxed with it trying to hook processes for the overlay

@AgathaSorceress 100MB of RAM is cheap these days. But alas, software is using several GB now, so it is in fact expensive as fuck.

@AgathaSorceress Yeah, we used to only use mumble+irc client for playing with friend. Everything was instant, no bug ever.

Now with discord, I have to boot windows 10 minute in advance to join them. They may have to wait 30 min more if there are unattended updates on the way.

@AgathaSorceress But we still made the transition because it was easier to stream music using a discord bot. And now we are all stuck with mumble. Yay. Cursed be roleplaying.

@AgathaSorceress Well, they run an entire web browser for each electron app you're using. They like this as they don't have to share browser resources with other apps, and native client development isn't needed just an off the shelf browser more or less. It's ideal as any issues with resource usage are always someone else's fault.

If you stop using discord it should fix your problem. Hope that helped.

@AgathaSorceress or, you know, some people may have to buy an entire new laptop because their old one has 16 GB soldered in, not upgradeable 🙃

> why is my discord client in 2022 using nearly 3 gigabytes ram

It is dutifully mining bitcoin for North Korea

@AgathaSorceress emacs used to stand for “Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping”

Those were different times of different scales…

A saying from my childhood was: “Denke mit, spar' ein Bit. Denke weit, spar' ein Byte.”

@AgathaSorceress Talked about this with someone, came to the conclusion that the EU should have legislation where if you release software, you can be sued if it doesn't run properly on at least 5 year old mid range hardware, with exceptions for high end specialty stuff obviously

@SigmaOne @AgathaSorceress Maybe there could be another exception for gratis stuff like Discord. If, and only if, alternative clients (both lite and feature-complete) are allowed, supported and – where they exist – advertised.

It doesn't feel right if you could be sued for giving people a gift, just because it's a rubbish gift. It does feel right if you could be sued for locking communities into using your useless software.

@wizzwizz4 @AgathaSorceress I mean, yeah, if it's actually free (and ideally FLOSS)

Thing is, DIscord is free to use but very much not *free*, they want you to buy their premium plans, and probably also sell user data or will sell user data because no way just the premium subscriptions are profitable, and investors won't fund them forever

@SigmaOne @AgathaSorceress Doesn't matter whether premium subscriptions are profitable. Premium subscriptions + selling user data is a few pennies more profitable.

Large corporations are chronically incapable of cooperating in the Prisoner's Dilemma. (Even though, for an unknown-duration iterated Prisoner's Dilemma, cooperate/cooperate is the textbook "rational" strategy.)

@AgathaSorceress i guess discord stores a lot of media in ram to make it quicker, compared to having it to load from a cache on the disk or to fetch the media from a website. And well as long as the ram is free that is also not much to concern. But yeah a lot of websites are pretty bloated and often not usable in low bandwith enviroments.

@AgathaSorceress because discord is an electron app. Instead of a native app you get a limited browser that's way less efficient. Because it's easier to develop cross platform that way, I believe.

@AgathaSorceress tbf discord has a ton of media on screen constantly. server icons, cached pfp of hundreds of users, thousands of emojis, embedded images. that isn't free

@iitalics @AgathaSorceress A common refrain in software development is the idea that throwing additional hardware at a problem is cheaper than additional development time.

Which, sure, when it comes to centralized enterprise systems running machine code.

But I feel this principle has been taken to heart for user applications, and the sheer amount of technical debt it has created has led to an arms race, and capital is able to get away with passing the buck.

@AgathaSorceress Considering that developers *already* get constantly harassed for using eg. JS by people who don't understand the source of performance issues and are (wrongly) convinced that all JS is automatically slow, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that encouraging "bullying developers" is probably not the way to solve this problem.

caps 

@AgathaSorceress WHAT HOW OMG
i have basically 3.25 gb of ram, i would die

@AgathaSorceress For most managers writing good software is not a soft skill, therefore is irrelevant.
@AgathaSorceress that takes time and skill tho = significantly more expensive + loses time to competitors = rip in shitty competition
@AgathaSorceress and you KNOW there's too many people who will rather have things immediately and those who will go angry at a GTA 6 dev build two years ahead of release
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Eldritch Café

Une instance se voulant accueillante pour les personnes queers, féministes et anarchistes ainsi que pour leurs sympathisant·e·s. Nous sommes principalement francophones, mais vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s quelle que soit votre langue.

A welcoming instance for queer, feminist and anarchist people as well as their sympathizers. We are mainly French-speaking people, but you are welcome whatever your language might be.