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It's 2019 and Pleroma still doesn't have:
— a public about page;
— easily avalaible contact information.
There is a reason why harassers and racist edgelords love this software you know?

Sorry, but it's a real pain in the ass to manage any content coming from a Pleroma instance. Every time I'm tempted to just block the entire thing.

I forgot how sensitive are Pleroma's users every time we remind them that it's the software of choice for shitty people and that it's interface is a dumpster fire.

When I joined Mastodon in 2017, everybody knew that most GNU Social instances where the home of far right activists, racist users, transphobic people and the like. That didn't mean the software wasn't great (I love GNU Social). But it had a lot of qualities that attracted them: it was lacking moderation tools, etc.
Today Pleroma is in the same spot. Unlike Mastodon, it is lightweight, there is no easy to discover rules or contact infos, it was lacking moderation tools for a long time, etc.

It's no wonder that most of the people who were using GNU Social in 2017 jumped to Pleroma when the software became good and mature enough. In some case, entire instances made the change and switched software (just look at eldritch's cafe blocklist if you want to see which ones).

Pleroma is basically 2019's GNU Social.

And for people telling me "Don't be mean with Pleroma :(.", I just complained that its interface was lacking public information and you came to me saying everything was fine. Sorry, it's been a year since I wanted to make this thread and I just had enough.

"But Mastodon…", "How about Mastodon…", "But Mastodon…"

What about Mastodon? Yeah I know it does a lot of think wrong and that its development is garbage nowadays. I complained about it enough, here, on Github, on Discord and on the fucking Mastodon forum. Here I'm talking about Pleroma.

Pleroma: "If people want to know who runs an instance, they should just check /api/v1/instance, it's easy and obvious."

Also Pleroma: "Can't put… an hyperlink… to the rules… on the front page… ggggggnnnnh, too technically difficult."

People: *complains about some aspects of Pleroma*

Pleroma devs: 💤

People: *complains louder*

Pleroma devs: "Wow. You are making hyperboles. It's bad."

Truly, "Everything is fine, there is contact info in the outbound HTTP headers." is not a take I expected to read when I logged in here today.

Multiple people have told me that Pleroma has indeed a page to publish things like rules and contact info. It's in /about. My mistake then! Pleroma has quite literally an about page now.
I would like to point out, however, there is no clear way (yet ?) to know it exists.

So, if like me, you have to moderate content from an unknown Pleroma instance and you are looking for their rules and who are their admin, know that:
— rules are on /about;
— contact info is on /api/v1/instance.

People saying I know nothing about Pleroma, you realize I'm also a Pleroma user, right?

@Sylvhem WTF?!

/about is a thing and contact information is available in _both_ /api/v1/instance and nodeinfo.
@Sylvhem true that /about lacks a link but the API stuff is publicly available on platforms like https://fediverse.network/ and /api/v1/instance is MastodonAPI.

@lanodan I know that. How many people (including moderators) even know what an API is?

@Sylvhem Every admin of a service on the internet should know how their own service work or be able to find how without calling out.

@lanodan
1. It's not my service, it some else's.
2. You can't expect any admin to know how every software that uses ActivityPub works, let allow every moderator do that.
3. You know there is moderators who are not technically savy right? It's kinda the point.
4. There is only an e-mail available in most /api/v1/instance of Pleroma's instance. An actual Fediverse account would be nice too.

@Sylvhem
1. Then please contact them for support rather than continuing on this "pleroma are nazi" horrible shit.
2. Not know exactly how it works but just few useful endpoints.
3. See 1.
4. That's because it's a mastodon endpoint and mastodon is limited, so we can either put nothing or only one account. See the nodeinfo for getting the list of staffAccounts (also gives you federation settings, something which mastodon only started to do)
@Sylvhem @lanodan

nodeinfo staffAccounts property is another source incidentally

but yes /about needs to be cleaned up and linked from the main navigation in the web client.

@lanodan Are you saying that you need to have technical knowledge on how a software work to moderate content in this software? Moderators are not dev or sysadmin.
@Sylvhem

@Courgette @Sylvhem You need technical knowledge to operate a computer, you need technical knowledge to provide a service on the internet, if you're a moderator you need to be able to reach your operator.

@lanodan

no,
no,
I don't understand, if I want to moderate, I need to ask to my admin how to contact admin of another instance, just because this software is lacking some basic URL to a human readable contact page?@Sylvhem

@lanodan @Sylvhem (i still have to google the url every time i want to see my own servers nodeinfo page lol)
@lanodan @Sylvhem
it's not immediately visible in the UI, which is why foss.technology's panel has a link to it
mastodon, in contrast, has it on the front (redirect) page
also, API/nodeinfo aren't trivial for non-techy users to view

while the post itself is fundamentally wrong, the de-facto sentiment is reasonable
there's a lot of UI/UX work that can still be done :blobsmile:

@xj9 Well, if it's embedded in the User Agent everything is fine I guess.

@lanodan

@Sylvhem @lanodan

literally every outbound http request has contact info in it is what i'm saying

carry on with your disinformation campaign tho if that's what you want to do
@Nocta evidence?

I've heard bad things about lain but not once have they been backed up with anything more than a mildly edgy joke.

@mewmew I was thinking about kaniini not lain I don't know that person sorry

@Sylvhem It's been since mastodon arrived (2017) that they were calling everything but themselves nazis by default.

Sorry but you just don't, it's a huge pain point. And yeah the UI needs improvements but when it comes with this kind of pain you almost do not want to fix it as they'll block and leave you alone.

@Sylvhem You don't get it, if you don't know the internals of whatever software you're using, you shouldn't be using it! It's that simple!

@Eramdam @Sylvhem This is beside the point, moderators from instances using different software (eg. mastodon), need a simple way to get contact info and instance rules.

moderators aren't sysadmins, checking HTTP headers or making API call shouldn't be part of their "job description"
@Sylvhem @Eramdam whoops ! It was kinda hard to keep track of ton,e change thorough the hellthread ^^

Sorry

@Sylvhem not to defend anything here but it works on some instances?
Do they put in in navigation manually or?..

socially.whimsic.al/about

social.libre.fi/about

@Sylvhem nobody said that, in fact I said the opposite, that it should be done.

@Mikoto Someone pointed that out to me earlier but thank you! I will know it for the next time I will need.

@Sylvhem
> I complained about it enough, here, on Github, on Discord and on the fucking Mastodon forum. Here I'm talking about Pleroma.
If you want something to be done why not contribute to it? The source code is public. If you don't know programming I could help you out ^^
Also, I would like to invoke Hanlon's razor here, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity". The pleroma team is not the most competent team ever but this is not a reason to call them nazis, in fact if you think that they are working within the bounds of AP and that they have to make sure that everything works correctly no matter what other software they are federating with it is a lot of work.
Finally, I would suggest that you avoid discord as it is a non-free centralised service that engages in censorship, is actively against end to end encryption and end to end authentication, makes it difficult for people with disabilities to use it, and makes it difficult for people without very strong computers to use it (due to its use of electron and the fact that they are against 3rd party clients).
@Mikoto @Sylvhem I like pleroma more because it tends to be the more customizable option. Mastodon doesn't let you use custom themes, pleroma has a make your own with import and exporting theme support. Mastodon, you have to install a browser extention and edit the CSS to make your own theme.

@Jessica I agree that Mastodon's theming is frustrating. As someone who did a couple of themes for it myself, I complained about it a lot.

@Mikoto

@Sylvhem @Mikoto Yeah, i prefer the way pleroma does things. Pleroma basically just asks you for a hex and some fonts and pleroma like "a'ight imma set that up for you" and then you can export the file. You can borrow themes from other instances and make your own easily

@Mikoto @Sylvhem

Finally, I would suggest that you avoid discord as it is a non-free centralised service that engages in censorship, is actively against end to end encryption and end to end authentication, makes it difficult for people with disabilities to use it, and makes it difficult for people without very strong computers to use it (due to its use of electron and the fact that they are against 3rd party clients).

Just want to echo all of this :D

@Mikoto @Sylvhem Though, maybe to the minds of some heavy handed censorship is a good thing. So long as the things that are banned are icky things they’re against

@wolfie I don't use Discord. I only did once on twice because it was the instant messaging software used by specific projects.

@Mikoto

@Sylvhem @Mikoto Fair enough. Personally, I rather dislike how many projects have abandoned or practically abandoned more open networks/systems for Discord. It’s exceedingly annoying :(

@wolfie @Mikoto @Sylvhem Someone know linked me to this thread. I agree about the end to end crypto and Electron issue with Discord. Could you tell me how Discord makes it difficult for people with disabilities to use the software? I regrettably don't understand much about web accessibility (aside form using alt text in image tags).

@catgirl @wolfie @Sylvhem I do not know about the web client (this is unusable for many other reasons anyway, and not only to blind people). For as far as the desktop and mobile clients go see https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/b7xddc/light_theme_is_a_accessibility_necessity_removing/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/69dsbt/a_community_closed_off_from_discord/
Considering that similar issues are still being raised on their subreddit and feedback forum on a regular basis I derive that they haven't fixed their accessibility yet.

@Mikoto I NEVER said Pleroma's devs were Nazis. This post was not about them, it was about the fact there were no clear contact information.
And I thought about contributing to Pleroma, by reporting bugs or doing translation for example. But given my bad experience with Mastodon on the subject, I'm not really willing to try frankly.

@Sylvhem My apologies then ^^
I misread it and thought that you meant the devs, but it still does not make that much sense to me if we talk about the users. I mean, setting up mastodon and either disabling or putting trash in the about page is pretty easy.
Btw, the :bun: is subposting you https://fedi.absturztau.be/notice/9ofM78DCPZpSlN1uwC
@Sylvhem you ruined a good point by throwing in an irrelevant and offensive accusation. no wonder people are acting defensive
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Eldritch Café

Une instance se voulant accueillante pour les personnes queers, féministes et anarchistes ainsi que pour leurs sympathisant·e·s. Nous sommes principalement francophones, mais vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s quelle que soit votre langue.

A welcoming instance for queer, feminist and anarchist people as well as their sympathizers. We are mainly French-speaking people, but you are welcome whatever your language might be.