@enkiv2 the wider problem with tolerating/accepting recreational use of psychedelics in some countries/societies (i.e UK) might seem initially unrelated - car dependency, busy lives and crowded city environments.

LSD and other psychedelics have *very* long after effects, and its near impossible for a professional British person to live without having to drive, cycle or get on a crowded train/metro.

None of these are any fun at all (and can possibly even be unsafe) if still tripping..

@vfrmedia @enkiv2
Hmmm... LSD goes through the system in 8-12 hours, right? I'd expect most folks who can afford a dose can also afford to stay indoors for a day over the weekend (or failing that, a bank holiday).

@enkiv2 this is scientifically true, but LSD (in UK) is not especially expensive (per dose its way cheaper than MDMA, or cocaine) though on pre internet markets its availability was often sporadic.

The UK's DUI limit is 1µg/L of blood. I do not know if long term microdosing would cause a user to exceed this limit.

British people (especially younger people) often live in smaller houses making parties/gatherings harder (noise restrictions, housemates may not agree with drugs use in house etc)

@vfrmedia @enkiv2
I have a sneaking suspicion that microdosing's dynamics are different. Microdosing by definition uses a fraction of the minimum effective tripping dose, & tolerance in LSD is extreme (weeks of tolerance after a single threshhold dose), so microdosing tolerance probably lowers the effects of microdosing itself.

@enkiv2 @vfrmedia
LSD seems like a really strange choice for a party drug. I'd expect most people to take it alone or with one or two housemates as sitters.

@enkiv2 I've had to "rescue" a few people who overdid it (and the 2-c* type psychedelics, sometimes both at once) at outdoor raves!

A surreal consequence of my ancestry (SE Asian) and ethnic stereotypes here is that folk (who know I work in healthcare) somehow assume I can fix both computers *and* people (OK the casualties recovered but I didn't even do any medical stuff, just reassured their friends and told them to look after them until they calmed down)

@vfrmedia @enkiv2
Man, that sounds like an absolute recipe for bad trips. I can understand taking MDMA in a social context, but anything with a head-trip seems like a bad combination with loud & crowded settings. (But, people make a lot of poor decisions in conjunction with entheogens...)

@enkiv2 I was genuinely dismayed at just how quickly we Brits pissed up the wall a chance to have a tolerated recreational drugs market, and at least in the initial stages it was educated young people buying the so-called "research chemicals" online and experimenting.

The cops didn't even *want* to bust this market as it had nearly eliminated street dealing amongst these groups (which today leads to a lot of nasty violence) but couldn't cope with DUI and extra burdens on the NHS

@vfrmedia @enkiv2 Do people who microdose have occasional dosage accidents? Where they are just getting their morning coffee from Starbucks and go, "Hmmm, I don't think I'm going to be able to go to work today".

@jbond @vfrmedia @enkiv2
I have heard folks accidentally dosing a nearly threshhold dose & getting a bit dizzy/loopy when first starting. I suspect it gets harder to reach that over time. If you're having a tenth of a normal dose every other day, you're probably not going to be able to trip if you try after the first week.

personal experience, not advisable 

personal experience, not advisable 

personal experience, not advisable 

@jbond
I have accidentally taken a threshold dose before. Its just really stressful but manageable, if you're used to tripping.
@vfrmedia @enkiv2

@enkiv2 some further context about UK drugs culture - from about 2008 to 2016 there were a *ton* of strong drugs available unrestricted online (no more than Amazon purchase) in our country, from stimulants to downers and *effective* LSD equivalents.

The then govt simply looked the other way for about 5 years.

Alas people binged on all of them big time and various casualties piled up that the NHS had to deal with (very few deaths, but a lot of scares and chronic health problems) >>

@enkiv2

so we Brits (unintentionally) *had* a social experiment with a self regulated recreational drugs market for serveral years, but fucked it up bad.

which is a big shame as there were plenty of people giving good harm reduction advice on forums etc (I was one of them) but the binge culture and short term thinking in this country won out in the end...

@vfrmedia
It really is unfortunate because the classical psychedelic community is populated with a lot of experienced folks who are big into responsible use and harm reduction, but then half the time nobody listens.
@enkiv2

@popefucker @enkiv2 the saddest part of this is all that time it was possible to get accurately labelelled good quality "stuff", but many went for "branded blends" of unknown substances taken by the kilo with alcohol. Around the time I managed to monitor ambulance callouts for a quarter of Britain using cheap equipment and an old PC, and I could see with my own eyes the extra problems.

To be fair few people died, but young otherwise healthy folk do /not/ just randomly keel over in the street>

@popefucker @enkiv2 this was regular every weekend on top of road crashes, seniors taking ill, and everything else the NHS have to deal with.

Drug driving and road crashes also attracted attention of cops.

It all came to a head around 2013-2015 and led to new laws (like USA Analogs Act) being pushed through in 2016 and enforced within months.

Before this authorities didn't even really want to clamp down, they had enough work to do with alcohol and existing hard drugs..

@vfrmedia @enkiv2 wow, that's real sad.

RC use seems much less commonplace in the US, although I'm pretty far from "rave culture" where I'm sure conditions are pretty similar.

I've never understood how anybody could take such strong drugs without even knowing what exact compounds they're ingesting. How anybody could trust a dealer who doesn't know their chems. It's just... so alien to me, I don't even know how to address this problem except by referring people to erowid whenever possible.

@bamfic @vfrmedia @enkiv2 maaan people who do this shit are evil evil people.

@popefucker @bamfic @enkiv2

at least (if you picked the right vendors) you never really had *this* problem in the UK with RC's other than branded blends, which did change active ingredients as the laws changed.

Even then the trading standards gave headshops a chance and said "if you must sell it you have to make available a list of contents to users" and until the laws changed only really sketchy vendors selling unidentified mixed substances or involved in other illegal drugs got busted.

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Eldritch Café

Une instance se voulant accueillante pour les personnes queers, féministes et anarchistes ainsi que pour leurs sympathisant·e·s. Nous sommes principalement francophones, mais vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s quelle que soit votre langue.

A welcoming instance for queer, feminist and anarchist people as well as their sympathizers. We are mainly French-speaking people, but you are welcome whatever your language might be.