@enkiv2 I frequently imagine people are just trolling Dr. Kay, knowing that he can never just answer the question that was asked.

It was an interesting read, but ...

I think his take is the best in the thread tbh: the easy answer is "GUIs don't have the automation support of CLIs", but Kay knows that it's not because they can't.

@enkiv2 It was really interesting to me, partly because even after having read books on End User Software Development and Programming by Demonstration the closest to any of the things he mentioned was Pygmalion. And Pygmalion is basically just executable flowcharts. I definitely want to look into Sketchpad, now.


@Azure @vertigo

TBH, I wish everybody answering on quora put in the level of effort Kay does.

@enkiv2 @Azure @vertigo
Re: sketchpad, I recall Ted or somebody saying that actually programming on it was annoying because it was designed organically & so was awkward (like a late-1950s PHP).

@enkiv2 @Azure I can believe it. But, being the late 50s, I think the author can be forgiven. :)

@enkiv2 @Azure That would be nice, and I agree overall.

It just, I don't know, if I'm asking a certain question about a topic, I am usually pretty focused on just that topic. I appreciate the historical context that Kay has imbued in his memory; it just seems to answer a different question.

There is another question though: am I reading the entirety of Kay's response? I don't think I am; I think Quora is cutting his response off mid-way, not being a paying user of the site.

@vertigo @Azure
There's a "read more" but it's not paywalled or anything

@enkiv2 @vertigo for the practical peasant GUI automation system, see: AppleScript

@libc @enkiv2 I'm not sure that counts; Amiga had AREXX as well, and as far as I know, both systems required the application developer to specifically support those respective technologies.

A CLI doesn't need this to be the case, since a CLI is already a byte-stream framework which applications "plug into" via stdin, stdout, etc.

@libc @enkiv2 As far as I'm aware, GUIs don't have anything like stdin and stdout, with the exception of CLIM. But, even here, I don't think the domain of CLIM exceeds the Lisp environment it's used in.

@vertigo @libc
Also, AppleScript isn't a gui programming language but a command line / script based mechanism for controlling gui code. It doesn't have enough integration really.

@vertigo @libc
I think the reason Kay was A2A is that in Smalltalk message-passing takes on the role of pipes for data flow control.

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Une instance se voulant accueillante pour les personnes queers, féministes et anarchistes ainsi que pour leurs sympathisant·e·s. Nous sommes principalement francophones, mais vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s quelle que soit votre langue.

A welcoming instance for queer, feminist and anarchist people as well as their sympathizers. We are mainly French-speaking people, but you are welcome whatever your language might be.